Frankie Ward on balancing parenthood with esports, returning to CSGO’s centre stage and the challenges of social media: ‘We will lose esports talent if we don’t see them as humans’ (PGL Antwerp Major Interview #1)

Photos by Danky and interview by Tom ‘Sneaky’ Taylor

Despite the lack of UK-based CSGO players and coaches at the PGL Antwerp Major, it boasted an incredible range of British broadcast talent.

Over the four-day stadium event, I made it my mission to meet up with several of these broadcast personalities, to ask them about personal and work-related topics for Esports News UK. Those interviewed consist of Frankie Ward, Freya Spiers, Harry Russell and James Banks, and these discussions will each feature in their own article of the coming weeks, starting today with Frankie Ward, who worked as a stage host at the event after a break for maternity leave.

Parenthood in esports, new challenges and returning to work

You’ve been very open about being a new mum and why childbirth stories need to be heard, on your Frankie Ward blog. Here you detail the recent traumatic experience you had in hospital with your childbirth – has this in any way affected you coming into the Major?

I think that the labour is something I definitely didn’t like… I mean the first week was so mad as [my daughter] had jaundice and was in hospital for four nights. It was afterwards when I was thinking about it that I thought I would write about it as it’s an experience that a lot of women have, in terms of not being listened to. That was quite important for me.

I think the hardest thing about having a baby when you’re in this industry that constantly demands you to be visible is that loss of identity. You almost can’t focus as much as you want to on being at home, because you’re instead constantly thinking you’re not going to be able to do ‘you’ again, like doing this event. And PGL got in touch so I pretty much knew for a good while that I was coming to do this.

The fact that PGL reached out so early was amazing – it’s incredibly rare in this industry! It meant I could plan for how I was going to do things, get an Airbnb, get my husband’s parents to come and help take care of my daughter, my husband could make sure he had the time to come out for a week and things like that.

PGL not only didn’t think that me having a baby would hinder me in any way, they were also just very open to it. They effectively said if your husband wants to stay in the hotel with the baby and all that kind of stuff. it’s fine. I got them an Airbnb though because I wanted to make sure I had space – and I don’t want to bring the baby into everyone else’s space, I want to make sure I’m respectful of that; everyone has been lovely and that definitely helped.

And then I got imposter syndrome running up to this event because, you know, I’ve been out for a few months, but yeah, it’s been much better than I expected in many ways.

With you mentioning imposter syndrome, what has it been like coming straight back into work at such a high-level event as the Major?

Well, I think that there are other people who have taken breaks before, but the difference in my case is probably working Counter-Strike, which is very competitive. And during Covid I was doing a lot of my work online, so I wasn’t as visible. I think there are probably some people who are saying, ‘Frankie shouldn’t do a major because she’s not worked for ages’, but actually, I worked up until I wasn’t able to fly anymore, so I would have done another IEM after TI, but I wasn’t allowed to fly so I couldn’t.

Actually, I also just needed a break because I was exhausted and in a lot of pain because pregnancy is actually quite painful for a lot of people.

So, I definitely had some imposter syndrome in terms of just preparing or feeling like I was behind and things like that. I spent a lot of time making sure I was catching up, and then as I was going on, I realised I knew all the stuff: I was watching the RMRs [which featured James Banks and Sjokz] and I think when I got to the event, I was doing content so I wasn’t doing of-the-moment side-line reports, I was doing more fun stuff.

So, I spent a day thinking people are going to say I can’t do the job that they know me for, because I was doing the fun stuff – and then I realised that I’m here to do the stage hosting.

It’s really amazing that PGL brought me out earlier as I’m good at doing the fun stuff, so you have to lean into that. I’m so grateful that PGL asked me to do it as I had so much fun with it all, and would love to do it again.

It’s just I’ve been so conditioned over the past few years of doing this into people thinking I don’t know anything, when actually my job is to ask questions. My job isn’t to know everything, my job is to ask other people for the answers.

If I’m not seen to be talking directly about what’s happened in the past three maps, then people are going to say that I can’t do it anymore, but actually it’s doing a different thing and I’ve loved it and I’d totally do it again. I’m very, very grateful to PGL for asking me to do it.

Stage-wise, it’s hard to be yourself on stage when there’s some really iconic stage hosts in esports, so for me it’s about watching and learning from those people, because they’re the best at what they do and then I go, ‘how do I learn from them?’ whilst still remaining myself.

When I had to do the trophy speech at the opening ceremony, that was a really lovely thing because it meant I could write about how I feel about Counter-Strike and how I think other people maybe see the game as well.

Discussing the implications of the ESL Impact women’s circuit

What are your thoughts on the new ESL Impact? Is it being done right and is it going to benefit the female scene in the way it’s been advertised?

Well, we’re seeing things like Navi signing Navi Javelins, so we are definitely seeing orgs start to see a reason to invest in women’s teams. I’ve not been able to see as much as I would have liked because of the baby and Major prep, but with the fact that there’s a final at Dallas alongside IEM, it harks back to IEM Katowice and the Intel Challenge which happened back in 2019.

They weren’t planning on doing [a women’s event] in 2021 regardless of everything that happened with Covid so I think [what’s happening now] is a positive thing. It gives women experience whilst also providing a way for younger female players to see a legitimate reason to take Counter-Strike seriously. When those women do, it’ll be up to them to decide If they want to pursue something solely female or if they want to try and pitch themselves into mixed rosters which is a very intimidating thing to do.

Also, ultimately, women enjoy playing video games. If people are making it very difficult for you to enjoy video games, you’re not going to spend as much time playing them to reach the pro level. I think that’s one of the things that can sometime hold women back. But Impact is also great for new casters such as Benelux caster Vearless. She’s awesome – I met her a few years ago after speaking online at Dreamhack Rotterdam and introduced her to Dagny Veinberg who was the producer of that show and who works at ESL on the video team. It’s been really cool to see Vearless doing well along with my friend Lucy [aka LucyLuce], who I met through my stream.

I think Lucy is going to do very well, very quickly as she’s a very natural colour commentator. She’s very good with details and not falling into the common trap of ‘say what you see’ as she knows her fundamentals, so I think it’s up to her whether she wants to commit to casting full-time or not but if she wanted to pursue it, she could.

Do you think Pansy will come back for the new ESL Impact?

I don’t know, I think she’s really busy with Valorant but I would love to see her there and I would work with her on anything in a heartbeat! I worked with her at PUBG when I first started. I knew her before, but I remember when we got added to the talent WhatsApp for a Dreamhack Austin, she was so welcoming.

I think it can be quite intimidating when you come into a new talent group, but in PUBG, everyone was a bit older and the esport was still fairly new, so everyone had space and time for me – and it was so lovely and welcoming. I would love to see Lauren work in Counter-Strike again – but I don’t care what project it is as long as I get to work with her again.

Dealing with social media and online comments in esports

How do you deal with the online ‘senseless nonsense’ that’s put your way on social media – is there a knack to it?

Well, I mean I mute and I block… Someone did actually tweet me yesterday after my [opening speech] as I think HLTV posted a picture and someone replied saying: ‘Frankie was terrible! This was probably the worst onstage speech I’ve ever seen!’

I’m not going to lie, I did reply with, ‘cry is free’, and then I muted them because sometimes I’m going to have fun with them – they’re taking some time out of my day so I might as well give them some time back!

Obviously, it can be quite difficult sometimes because I’ll read things about myself that aren’t true like, I ‘tried to get people fired’ etc and I’ve never tried to get people fired. I think anyone that actually reads my Twitter feed will see that for the most part I’m very diplomatic and I don’t tend to be hysterical about things.

I did once get upset because I hadn’t slept for two days and I hadn’t eaten and wasn’t allowed to take an ice cream into a press area. I did then quote-retweeted myself saying, ‘I’m really sorry! This was such a stupid thing to send. I was very hangry,’ – and I was!

My suitcase had been lost by EasyJet and I hadn’t slept in two days. I was working press, it was chaos… I was sad. So, you know what? I have sometimes been a twat on social media, but what I try to do is not direct it at an individual.

I might sometimes say something about an organisation, and I can’t say for sure that I’ve never said something about someone individually, but I try to keep it very much focused on organisational level if that makes sense. That’s the key thing for me. I’m going to do my best not to make anyone feel targeted.

Frankie Ward’s background in broadcasting and esports

How did you get into esports and what were some of your previous roles within television and broadcasting?

The first esports broadcast I was involved with was the League of Legends Worlds quarter finals in 2015, but I wasn’t on the broadcast talent for that, I was basically the senior producer on the web side of things for the BBC. My job was to build the website and work with the team who were producing the broadcast and Riot was really generous in terms of giving us the feed.

So basically, before I did that event, I was working on loads of different things, I worked with multiple different broadcasters, mostly doing digital production and some radio as well. Then when I did this coverage with League, I was like, ‘oh my god, these are my people’, and I didn’t know I could work in video games til that moment and then I went, ‘hang on a second, video games are a broadcast, esports is a broadcast. This is actually an amazing opportunity!’

So, I looked at where most people were watching the broadcast of League, and they were watching on Twitch. I kind of kept my eye on the Twitch website, and then a programming manager job came up, which is essentially a producer, so I joined them for a year and a half and got to make contacts really quickly in the industry, especially in the UK gaming industry. Now I wouldn’t say [the industry] was small, but it was really well-connected, tight-knit.

I also met people like Joe Miller from ESL, he’s their head of talent, because he was doing replays on the BBC broadcast of League of Legends 2015. Then I met Deman who’s a commentator, and I met Stress who was working with Splyce before their rebrand [to Mad Lions]. I worked with production teams like ESL UK when I was at Twitch and that’s when my friend Will [‘Fridgecake’ Attwood] asked me if I would be up for stage hosting a Hearthstone event in January 2018.

From there I got asked to do a few things, and when I got made redundant from Twitch (because a few people did on the same day), I sent out the little footage I had (as I was doing Ginx TV as well) and from there, I got hired to do some PUBG at Dreamhack Austin 2018. I’d also been picked up to do a PC Gaming show at E3 2018 which was a really significant show for me, and it just went from there really.

Was bypassing the lower-tier UK esports scene a blessing or a curse?

I mean I sort of saw it at a grassroots level when I was producing stages at Twitch [like Esports News UK’s EGX one in 2017]. I was producing the Twitch stage at Insomnia, I did a couple of Insomnias, and I did some stuff at Gamescon. For me, I guess some people might look at me and say she didn’t do the grassroots enough, but I also had nearly 10 years’ experience as a producer.

I knew what broadcasting needed from me, and I knew what I needed from them and I’m very good at researching and turning up very prepared for the job. I’m obviously playing the games before I host them, and I’m doing as much due diligence in the research as possible, so for me, whilst I haven’t been there from day one, I have been able to bring something into this industry that’s valuable to it. Therefore, to me, I have a legitimate case to get to where I did, when I did.

How have your opinions on your former favourite esports titles, Rocket League, Overwatch and PUBG, changed now that you’ve been working in Counter-Strike for four years?

Well Counter-Strike is the best esport to watch for a new viewer and for existing ones, because it’s a game with so many layers that anyone can enjoy it. When you start to invest more time and interest and get to know the depth, and maybe start playing the game, you’ll learn that there are so many player histories and stories: it’s an esport with real legacy because it’s an esport of 20 years.

The CPL (Cyberathlete Professional League) was running back in 2001 after Counter-Strike came about in 1999, so it only took the game a few years to take off in an esports sense. (the CPL was founded in 1997, and hosted its first Counter-Strike tournament in 2000).

But I would love to do Rocket League though. I have done some Overwatch and I really enjoyed it, and I love the talent in that scene as they’re just amazing to work with; I also played that game a lot. But for me, I would love to work in Rocket League as, again, I love the people in the scene, and I know people won’t compare Counter-Strike and Rocket League very often. But I think they’re very similar in offering a very accessible new-viewer experience.

For me, that’s really key, as I’m someone who came into esports very late – and I don’t want anyone to think it’s too late for them. I want to be someone who helps in getting new viewers and they don’t have to be young; they can also be my age as well.

You had a fantastic 2019 in terms of Counter-Strike events, nearly all S-Tier, and you’re a storied caster/interviewer/host in this scene now…

I did some Dreamhack Opens as well, and I love doing those so I haven’t just done the IEMs. I did Starladder back in 2018 and 2019 as well. That was still a big event but it wasn’t the same as an IEM, so I did 19 events, or 20 if you include going to the Berlin Major as press… I literally love games! It was a mad year; I was away for seven months.

Frankie’s future – what’s next?

Is the esports industry a world in which you would be comfortable bringing your child into in the future?

Yeah, definitely. I think hopefully things will get better. It depends on what she wants to do; I would never stop her from going into esports, I think it would be more about seeing what side she wants to do and also seeing how esports is when she’s old enough to be involved in it. Obviously, you can get started from a really young age.

I can remember Plopski from NIP, his parents, especially his dad, would come to loads of events with him and once he was old enough, once he was 18, he stopped going with him and I think that was a really nice way of easing him into that kind of working environment.

He was 17 years old in Malmo in 2019 on a stage he’d seen NIP play at, and he literally got a picture with NIP, and suddenly he’s in the jersey and he’s on the stage, and he’s part of fucking NIP! Like, it’s an incredible story, right? But I think it can also be incredibly overwhelming, so I think that having his dad there was probably a really great, grounding thing for him.

I would just want my daughter to be incredibly supported in whatever she chose to do. If she wants to start commentating and all of that, have all the gear, then she’ll be great. And I hope social media changes by the time she’s old enough because I think that’s one of the most difficult parts of our industry. A team can be heart-broken from a loss, but then when they also have to go online and get death-threats and a load of abuse, that’s also going to be an extra layer of things. Take a 16-year-old Leaf and his cheating accusations as an example. He’s in Valorant now for Cloud9 so he’s doing well.

But we will lose talent if we don’t see them as humans. People see others as objects on social media and they don’t see them as anything. I’m sure I probably come across as a dick sometimes on social media, but I promise you I’m a nice, approachable person! Or at least I try to be!

And to round things out, is it daunting now being a parent in esports and are you going to be taking a step back from your 2019-level schedule where you were everywhere and away from home a lot of the year?

I definitely won’t go back to the 2019-level of events because on top of the 20 Counter-Strike ones, I was doing lots of other games as well, so I was probably hitting 25 to 26 events. And one of those was three weeks long, so it wasn’t like I was just away for 26 weekends of the year, I was away for seven months, and that’s not sustainable.

I think it’s more about taking work that gives me enough notice to prepare and put it in my diary and make arrangements, and also just choosing the things that I really want to do. But I don’t know if I’m in a position where I can do that and it is very difficult when tournament organisers don’t necessarily give me the notice.

I have some things booked in July and I was asked to do some stuff in June that I would have loved to have done. But what I’ve decided to do is take the month of June off to hangout with my daughter and not stress about prepping. I’ve had a lot of having to work and balance things and it’s not been very sustainable, so I’m going to try and stream one day a week – and spend the rest of the time focusing on her.

Follow Frankie Ward on Twitter here